- Intro post #1: Kickoff
- Intro post #2: Christ myth theory
- Intro post #3: Internet Infidels
- Habermas & Licona, Introduction, Post #1: Meet Gary
- Habermas & Licona, Introduction, Post #2: Meet Michael
- Habermas & Licona, Introduction, Post #3: They Saw Something
- Habermas & Licona, Part 1, Post #4: The Shockwave
- Habermas & Licona Part 1, Post #5: Saved From What?
- Habermas & Licona Part 1, Post #6: Jesus Claimed He Would Rise Again
- Habermas & Licona Part 1, Post #7: Why It's Going For The Jugular
- Habermas & Licona Part 1, Post #8: Washington Myth Theory
- Habermas & Licona Part 1, Post #9: History 101
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #10: Our First Minimal Fact!
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #11: Rumors Of The Bible's Obscurity Have Been Greatly Exaggerated
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #12: If Your Mother Tells You She Loves You, Check It Out
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #13: No, The Gospels Were Not Written Hundreds Of Years Later
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #14: Clement Of Rome
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #15: Polycarp
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #16: The Seal of Blood
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #17: The Seal of More Blood
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #18: Meet The Scholars
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #19: It was right under my nose
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #20: Oh, so my brother really IS God
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #21: My knees are shaking
- Habermas & Licona Part 2, Post #22: The Bible: It's not just for Christians anymore!
- Habermas & Licona Part 3, Post #23: Kicking the tires
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #24: All together now?
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #25: A red herring
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #26: Moses the friendly ghost
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #27: Consider the source
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #28: Parthian shots
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #29: We’re taking strange fire! Part 1
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #30: We’re taking strange fire! Part 2
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #31: We’re taking strange fire! Part 3
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #32: Suspicious Minds
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #33: Alien vs. Jesus
- Habermas & Licona Part 4, Post #34: A position statement disguised as an argument
- Into the woods...and the Way back home
- Yes, Jesus went there
- Ehrman, Post #1: Make this shot count
- Ehrman, Post #2: Everyone was dead
- Ehrman, Post #3: It's almost like monotheism is the logical choice
- Ehrman, Post #4: Admit you never saw a vulture rising from the flames or die
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Dear Friends,
We are continuing our journey through Part 4 of The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus, by Gary Habermas and Mike Licona. Part 4 addresses additional objections to the Christian resurrection story.
Last time, I addressed the claim that Paul’s letter to the Corinthians supported “objective vision theory” (1), which is the idea that Jesus rose again spiritually, but not bodily. Today, we’ll look at a similar attempt related to Peter’s first epistle.
More arguments against the Resurrection
- About those texts used to deny a bodily resurrection
“Mark 16:7 could say that Jesus’ spirit will meet the disciples.”“Matthew 28:16-17 indicates that there were doubts.”“John 21:12 hints that the disciples didn’t recognize Jesus.”“Galatians 1:16 seems to say Paul’s experience was not physical.”“First Corinthians 15:37-50 contrasts the natural physical body with the spiritual.”- “First Peter 3:18 seems to say Jesus’ spirit was made alive, not his body.”
- Naturalistic arguments
- “If atheism is true, then Jesus did not rise”
- “The Resurrection doesn’t prove God’s existence”
- “Jesus never died, so there was no resurrection”
- “Reports of Jesus’ appearances differ little from the reports of the angel’s appearance to Joseph Smith”
- “Reports of the Resurrection are no more believable than today’s reports of Elvis and alien sightings”
- “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”
He is risen…ish: Peter edition
So help me God, I will try to address this objection today:
“First Peter 3:18 seems to say Jesus’ spirit was made alive, not his body.”
I’m going to say this one more time, because it’s relevant to the context: It’s not just card-carrying atheists alleging that parts of the New Testament teach a spirit-only resurrection. Prominent church leaders have been known to make the same allegations (2) (but if you go to that link, please see my rebuttal in the previous post!). So, you’re going to want to have an informed position on this critical area of Christian doctrine.
Consider the source
This is going to be a very short blog post, because I’m not going to defend a Bible translation that I don’t consider reliable.
Here is the contested passage, from the NASB:
[1Pe 3:18 NASB95] 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, [the] just for [the] unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
Here is the contested passage, from the KJV:
[1Pe 3:18 KJV] 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Now ask yourself. Which of those two renderings sounds more like a spirit-only resurrection? If you said the NASB, then you picked the same version quoted by Habermas in his treatment of today’s objection. In other words, yes, “alive in the spirit” sounds more like a spirit-only resurrection than “quickened by the Spirit”. And yes, I checked on blueletterbible.org…this is not merely a translation issue. The underlying Greek texts are different for the NASB vs. the KJV.
So, my response to…
“First Peter 3:18 seems to say Jesus’ spirit was made alive, not his body.”
…is, “stick with the KJV”.
Is it really that hard, my friends?
I have not addressed Bible translations much, if at all, on this blog. I use the King James Version, and that’s about all I’ve said.
For now, I’ll just say this: it should bother you that most modern translations rip out the “thee”s and “thou”s of the KJV and replace them all with “you”. That is a bug, not a feature! See John 3:7 for an example of where this matters (I’ll go into more detail if you are interested….just leave a comment).
If you haven’t studied other languages, you might not be aware that many languages use separate pronouns for plural vs. singular 2nd person. It is English that has become the exception over the past few hundred years. All we can handle is “you”, for some reason, at least in America. If you are a Christian wanting to treat the Bible as the last word on your worldview, your decisions, your theology, etc., wouldn’t you want to preserve as much precision from the original Greek as possible? In turn, I am suspicious of the Greek manuscripts used by translators who thought it was OK to translate out the aforementioned pronoun distinctions.
The bottom line:
Jesus was quickened BY the spirit.
Amen?
Links:
(1) Objective vision theory on wikipedia (click, then scroll down)
(2) The New York Times on Reginald H. Fuller
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The “thees”. “thous”, “thines”, and so forth are not really bugs in the KJV simply because they are mo9re exact than the modern usage of “you” and “yours” have no plural. One could say that the modern plural “you” could be “you all” but in today’s world one would sound like Foghorn Leghorn. The plural form of “you” used in the KJV makes the text more clear and simpler than the modern translations.
By the way, English one of the countries in Europe that had a translation of the Bible into its language (if one except Wyclyffe). By the time Tyndale translated the Bible into English the French had a government sanction translation of the Bible, as did the Germans with the Luther Bible, and the Spanish. But, strangely, since the first Tyndale translation of the Bible into English no language has had more translations of the Bible than English. Since the first French translation of the Bible there have been only two more translations of the Bible until today. The English speakers have dozens of translations to choose from, including Hawaiian Pidgin. No other language has more translations of the Bible than does English. It says something about the nature of the English and the Americans that there are so many translations; either that they are more religious than other Europeans, or that they will twist a translation to make their points. Probably a combination of the two.
Hi Dave, thanks for your comment, we are in violent agreement. The “thees”. “thous”, “thines” are features 🙂
I didn’t realize that the Bible has been translated into English much more often than into other European languages, and I also had not even heard of Hawaiian Pidgin. Was just reading about it on wikipedia and found a picture of an inscription of Mark 1:9-11 in Hawaiian Pidgin, thought that was interesting.
As far as why there are so many more translations in English, you raise some important possibilities. I wonder if another factor is bad old-fashioned greed.
God bless,
TFOTF